The Apostle Paul wrote to a church: "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith". This seems to imply a corporate collaborative element as we jointly test ourselves, you testing me and I testing you, 'to see if [we] are in the faith'. "For none of us lives to himself alone" - or to quote the secular saying "no man is an island". We each have individual conscience such that one might eat meat and another believe only in eating a vegetarian or vegan diet. So we must "to yourself be true". But we should each seek to be "able to discern a brother". It is not easy. This kind of discussion helps. Yes we must discern a brother so then we can pray for the brother who sins but if we seldom meet folk we are sure are true brothers we might get little practice. I only think a handful of people I have met are such that I have anything near certainty that they are in the faith and usually it is by signs I believe to be from God. In his first letter to believers in Thessalonika Paul indicated how he discerned them as believers "For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction." If we find God works miracles when we are someone's company it hints that they are loved by God and maybe Christ is speaking to us through eachother. A wonderful Jeremiah passage in chapter 31 verses 31 to 34 to me describes how grace of Christ works among real believers loved by God. It is a work in the heart. The grace of workings of Christ through us in miracles and spirit does more than words alone. It teaches not just the intellect but the heart through actions and feelings God gives. The end result is that eventually each gets to hear the message beyond merely words as God impresses on each the knowledge of Himself and of His Christ.
Jeremiah 31:31-34 "“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”"
The scriptures do guide us on this and it is obvious really what blessing is just intervention by God by the Spirit and what is actually to bless and build up but all the same we need to be not so dead as those who merely read about it scripture but never get given this wonderful Spirit who is from God. This is similar to what happened when Jesus walked the Earth physically before God sent the Spirit to each believer. People read about the Christ in scriptures like Isaiah but sadly did not go to Jesus Himself for life so all they had was Bible knowledge but not life the Bible speaks of. John 5:39 "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." So many today are content to study scripture but never seek out what scripture speaks of. Life is from seeking the Spirit today.
Many churches witness wonderfully unusual phenomena like what is called Toronto Blessing and 'Slaying in the Spirit'. The Spirit acted on King Saul in a similar way to 'slaying in the spirit' to keep him from killing David. Maybe that is what this action of spirit or Spirit is about: keeping those forsaken by God from interfering with those chosen by God. Maybe. It certainly seems to distract. What I consider 'live' churches full of evidence of grace is the building up work of the Spirit seen in gifts like real prophecy and real xenoglossia with interpretation. One place I attended had so many young men all gifted with prophecy whose combined words could all coincide with what I asked God to say privately before the meeting. My most emphatic clear experience of the 'word of The Lord' coming to me was as I prepared for one of their services. All these workings are like those in the narrative of the life of David and life of Saul and here too we find one losing grace having gained it and one ever growing in it from glory to glory. King Saul and his army all had the Spirit of God come upon them and cause them to prophesy and cause Saul to remain on his face all night but by it they were being prevented from doing serious wrong to David out of the jealousy of Saul who knew David was being chosen by God and not himself. The greater blessing is to have controlled utterance from the same Spirit to speak inspired words to build up the corporate body of believers who are the body of Christ with Christ as head and to do so as manifesting not just Spirit from God but love for Christ rather than jealousy.
1 Samuel 19:18-24 "When David had fled and made his escape, he went to Samuel at Ramah and told him all that Saul had done to him. Then he and Samuel went to Naioth and stayed there. Word came to Saul: “David is in Naioth at Ramah”; so he sent men to capture him. But when they saw a group of prophets prophesying, with Samuel standing there as their leader, the Spirit of God came on Saul’s men, and they also prophesied. Saul was told about it, and he sent more men, and they prophesied too. Saul sent men a third time, and they also prophesied. Finally, he himself left for Ramah and went to the great cistern at Seku. And he asked, “Where are Samuel and David?”
“Over in Naioth at Ramah,” they said. So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even on him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth. He stripped off his garments, and he too prophesied in Samuel’s presence. He lay naked all that day and all that night. This is why people say, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”"
Jeremiah 31:31-34 "“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”"
The scriptures do guide us on this and it is obvious really what blessing is just intervention by God by the Spirit and what is actually to bless and build up but all the same we need to be not so dead as those who merely read about it scripture but never get given this wonderful Spirit who is from God. This is similar to what happened when Jesus walked the Earth physically before God sent the Spirit to each believer. People read about the Christ in scriptures like Isaiah but sadly did not go to Jesus Himself for life so all they had was Bible knowledge but not life the Bible speaks of. John 5:39 "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." So many today are content to study scripture but never seek out what scripture speaks of. Life is from seeking the Spirit today.
Many churches witness wonderfully unusual phenomena like what is called Toronto Blessing and 'Slaying in the Spirit'. The Spirit acted on King Saul in a similar way to 'slaying in the spirit' to keep him from killing David. Maybe that is what this action of spirit or Spirit is about: keeping those forsaken by God from interfering with those chosen by God. Maybe. It certainly seems to distract. What I consider 'live' churches full of evidence of grace is the building up work of the Spirit seen in gifts like real prophecy and real xenoglossia with interpretation. One place I attended had so many young men all gifted with prophecy whose combined words could all coincide with what I asked God to say privately before the meeting. My most emphatic clear experience of the 'word of The Lord' coming to me was as I prepared for one of their services. All these workings are like those in the narrative of the life of David and life of Saul and here too we find one losing grace having gained it and one ever growing in it from glory to glory. King Saul and his army all had the Spirit of God come upon them and cause them to prophesy and cause Saul to remain on his face all night but by it they were being prevented from doing serious wrong to David out of the jealousy of Saul who knew David was being chosen by God and not himself. The greater blessing is to have controlled utterance from the same Spirit to speak inspired words to build up the corporate body of believers who are the body of Christ with Christ as head and to do so as manifesting not just Spirit from God but love for Christ rather than jealousy.
1 Samuel 19:18-24 "When David had fled and made his escape, he went to Samuel at Ramah and told him all that Saul had done to him. Then he and Samuel went to Naioth and stayed there. Word came to Saul: “David is in Naioth at Ramah”; so he sent men to capture him. But when they saw a group of prophets prophesying, with Samuel standing there as their leader, the Spirit of God came on Saul’s men, and they also prophesied. Saul was told about it, and he sent more men, and they prophesied too. Saul sent men a third time, and they also prophesied. Finally, he himself left for Ramah and went to the great cistern at Seku. And he asked, “Where are Samuel and David?”
“Over in Naioth at Ramah,” they said. So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even on him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth. He stripped off his garments, and he too prophesied in Samuel’s presence. He lay naked all that day and all that night. This is why people say, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”"
